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Subject: [change] Sponsorship between countries
What I'm saying is it has not been done. Making a statement that you can get there in 2 seasons it ridiculous when even previously experienced users have not been able too.
And sure, people should start out level if they have the chance to get the same income etc. when they get to the top, but we have proven this is not the case.
Teams in bigger countries will still come out ahead in div 4, over a team in div 2 Australia, because they will bring in a lot more money from gate takings playing real teams, and get a lot more fans each week by playing real teams who have built up their supporters, than the team in div 2 Australia playing bots every week, who were mostly new players with very few fans, and will never raise their ranking so again less supporters coming to the ground.
This is why I say, Sponsorship needs to be based on division, because large competitive leagues will still end up with a lot more money coming in than what teams in small countries would bring in by being a division or two higher. That is the big picture, and cometer pointed it out perfectly in his example
And sure, people should start out level if they have the chance to get the same income etc. when they get to the top, but we have proven this is not the case.
Teams in bigger countries will still come out ahead in div 4, over a team in div 2 Australia, because they will bring in a lot more money from gate takings playing real teams, and get a lot more fans each week by playing real teams who have built up their supporters, than the team in div 2 Australia playing bots every week, who were mostly new players with very few fans, and will never raise their ranking so again less supporters coming to the ground.
This is why I say, Sponsorship needs to be based on division, because large competitive leagues will still end up with a lot more money coming in than what teams in small countries would bring in by being a division or two higher. That is the big picture, and cometer pointed it out perfectly in his example
You are so worried about giving a small country a tiny advantage in a very small aspect of the game, and don't realise all the other ways large countries have huge advantages. And that is a terrible way to look at it
Surely it would make more sense for Sponsorship to be the same or similar for all countries
Maybe even have it , the longer you play the higher the sponsorship for the club . It seems wrong that being in a top division can have such large differences in income
This week I received around £170000 , but it seems to vary between 120k and £170k
Maybe also a set sponsorship deal , which increases with a win or high attendance could work too
Attendance needs looking into also , I struggle to hit 30000
Maybe even have it , the longer you play the higher the sponsorship for the club . It seems wrong that being in a top division can have such large differences in income
This week I received around £170000 , but it seems to vary between 120k and £170k
Maybe also a set sponsorship deal , which increases with a win or high attendance could work too
Attendance needs looking into also , I struggle to hit 30000
For those reading in a different currency, Stevie's sponsorship is between 200 000 $ and 283 334 $
Just adding in the money tag so everyone can see in their own currency :)
Just adding in the money tag so everyone can see in their own currency :)
sponsorship is not what makes difference now its game income that hits more and adding 2 domestic game to big countries per week is huge advantage for them. That is why international competitions would make more sense so small countries to profit game income and if they are better tactically to get some rating... also users need more competitions not more game per week but more qulity game per week more different challenges as well
100% agree with you sviktorov, and the point you are making shows that there is no way changing sponsorship to division, would negatively affect a large country, as they earn more per match at lower divisions, than what a small country does.
So although it will be a drop in the ocean, at least fixing the sponsorship, will fix just one of the current injustices within the game that are geared towards large nations.
All your points though are extremely valid, and official international competitions would certainly help things to even out a little. If sponsorship was also linked directly to international leagues, instead of the current national league, it would actually solve all the problems in one hit, as all teams, from all nations, would be in the same league, under the say "limitations" and having the same rules, so it would be 100% fair. But that would only be if it were an international league (when I say league, I mean an international competition where you promote and relegate), that the sponsorship was tied too instead of the national cup.
One simple change, would fix a world of pain
So although it will be a drop in the ocean, at least fixing the sponsorship, will fix just one of the current injustices within the game that are geared towards large nations.
All your points though are extremely valid, and official international competitions would certainly help things to even out a little. If sponsorship was also linked directly to international leagues, instead of the current national league, it would actually solve all the problems in one hit, as all teams, from all nations, would be in the same league, under the say "limitations" and having the same rules, so it would be 100% fair. But that would only be if it were an international league (when I say league, I mean an international competition where you promote and relegate), that the sponsorship was tied too instead of the national cup.
One simple change, would fix a world of pain
New users - make sure, that new team in small country dont get to much bonus vs. team in large country.
If this is the case, a user from a small country will join the game in a larger country simply because he'll get more sponsorship money and he'll progress faster. He also gets to play against more number of real users. This statement doesn't really assuages our fears with regards to whether the developers are paying equal attention to the smaller countries or not. Why should I play from India if this is just a game? Why can't I join the game as a user from, say Italia? I get more money, more interesting matches, more competition, more community discussion, etc.
I think small countries need to be merged together in the form of some international league where there will be more excitement for the new users from small countries.
If this is the case, a user from a small country will join the game in a larger country simply because he'll get more sponsorship money and he'll progress faster. He also gets to play against more number of real users. This statement doesn't really assuages our fears with regards to whether the developers are paying equal attention to the smaller countries or not. Why should I play from India if this is just a game? Why can't I join the game as a user from, say Italia? I get more money, more interesting matches, more competition, more community discussion, etc.
I think small countries need to be merged together in the form of some international league where there will be more excitement for the new users from small countries.
Raul, to answer your question the sponsorship I get is currently 51 638 $ but that’s because I lost supporter mood from last weeks league match. Last week at top supporter mood it was 55 505 $. Would be interesting to know what others that have been around for a month are getting. Even if it’s around the same which would be good to know, I’m unlikely to get too much more sponsorship as my league is full of bots outside first. I’ve also got no hope of promoting this year as we have better teams in our other div2 leagues so at best I will get a qualifier and will definitely lose that this season unless those teams forfeit as I’m just not strong enough. I expect I’ll have a better shot in another 2 seasons but again I’ve played this game before and that allows me to speed up the process. I haven’t looked but I’m sure if I was in a lower division in a bigger country I’d promote even quicker and get to a point where I’d earn more than immediately promoting to our top league. If I get promoted to the top league here all the other top sides in that division will have their sponsorship reduced if average ratings or rankings are used as I’m miles behind on all fronts there
I think your sponsorship at this stage would be very similar to that of a similar aged user in the large country. But this is only because they have no upgraded to the next division, which as you showed in your example, is where the big difference occurs, and continues to occur for every season thereafter, and gets a bigger difference for every league they promote afterwards.
So here's a little update
Australia:
Fantum - Started in June 2018 - 131 250 $ sponsorship (from 124 375 $ last week) - won all league games - rating 52
Cometer - Started in April 2018 - 55 500 $ sponsorship - rating 32
Italia:
Player 1 - Started in Sept 2019 - 150 000 $ sponsorship - lost 3 of 4 league matches - rating 48
Player 2 - Started in Nov 2019 - 161 250 $ sponsorship - lost 3 of 4 league matches - rating 47
Player 3 - Started in Jan 2020 - 137 813 $ sponsorship - rating 41
Player 4 - Started in Mar 2020 - 129 063 $ sponsorship - rating 45
Poland:
Player 1 - Started in Feb 2020 - 112 500 $ sponsorship - lost 4 of 4 league matches. - ratig 35
Player 2 - Started in April 2020 - 111 250 $ sponsorship - rating 37
Player 3 - Started in April 2020 - 106 563 $ sponsorship - rating 30
Player 4 - Started in Apr 2020 - 111 250 $ sponsorship - rating 35
Player 5 - Started in April 2020 - 93 750 $ sponsorship - rating 24
This is already telling a huge story just how much advantages Large nations have over small nations in the current system. Most of these users started about the same time as cometer, and rates a similar score as cometer, but receive twice as much sponsorship each week.
Many of these "earn" only a small amount less than fantum, who has played for two years, and rates much much higher. A new team should not be able to earn a similar amount as a team who has played for 2 years just because of the country they started in.
And because of this unfair earnings, they will soon be able to rate the same as fantum but in a fraction of the time (because remember, it isn't just sponsorship that is so much in their favour, they also get much higher gate takings because of their opposition being humans and not bots or inactive humans), which then perpetuates this cycle, all because they were given an unfair advantage at the start
(edited)
Australia:
Fantum - Started in June 2018 - 131 250 $ sponsorship (from 124 375 $ last week) - won all league games - rating 52
Cometer - Started in April 2018 - 55 500 $ sponsorship - rating 32
Italia:
Player 1 - Started in Sept 2019 - 150 000 $ sponsorship - lost 3 of 4 league matches - rating 48
Player 2 - Started in Nov 2019 - 161 250 $ sponsorship - lost 3 of 4 league matches - rating 47
Player 3 - Started in Jan 2020 - 137 813 $ sponsorship - rating 41
Player 4 - Started in Mar 2020 - 129 063 $ sponsorship - rating 45
Poland:
Player 1 - Started in Feb 2020 - 112 500 $ sponsorship - lost 4 of 4 league matches. - ratig 35
Player 2 - Started in April 2020 - 111 250 $ sponsorship - rating 37
Player 3 - Started in April 2020 - 106 563 $ sponsorship - rating 30
Player 4 - Started in Apr 2020 - 111 250 $ sponsorship - rating 35
Player 5 - Started in April 2020 - 93 750 $ sponsorship - rating 24
This is already telling a huge story just how much advantages Large nations have over small nations in the current system. Most of these users started about the same time as cometer, and rates a similar score as cometer, but receive twice as much sponsorship each week.
Many of these "earn" only a small amount less than fantum, who has played for two years, and rates much much higher. A new team should not be able to earn a similar amount as a team who has played for 2 years just because of the country they started in.
And because of this unfair earnings, they will soon be able to rate the same as fantum but in a fraction of the time (because remember, it isn't just sponsorship that is so much in their favour, they also get much higher gate takings because of their opposition being humans and not bots or inactive humans), which then perpetuates this cycle, all because they were given an unfair advantage at the start
(edited)
::pop corn::
This was a problem a decade ago, and it remains a problem.
It is a systemic bias in the game that makes it less likely that the game will grow internationally. Finding a fairer system would have negligible impact on large countries, but would increase the chance that smaller countries would be able to grow their user-base. It is hard enough to get players to stick in a small country, if someone is undecided about continuing with the game and they realise that even more things than they thought are stacked against them, it can be the deciding factor that makes them leave.
This was a problem a decade ago, and it remains a problem.
It is a systemic bias in the game that makes it less likely that the game will grow internationally. Finding a fairer system would have negligible impact on large countries, but would increase the chance that smaller countries would be able to grow their user-base. It is hard enough to get players to stick in a small country, if someone is undecided about continuing with the game and they realise that even more things than they thought are stacked against them, it can be the deciding factor that makes them leave.
Well, but that kind of sponsorship level is impossible to get in last country division. All results from Poland and Italy are after promotion, vs Cometer without it, right?
They are all 2nd from the bottom division.
But if you want to say it's just due to promotion, then what happens when the top of that division promotes? They also go up in sponsor, but the top of the Australian division can't promote, therefore can't go up in sponsor.
So in Poland, they can have 4 more promotions, each time getting more sponsors, than what the small country says.
It doesn't matter which way you look at it, the system is flawed in such a way that it actually isn't possible for a small country to keep up.
And how do you explain fantum getting less or equivalent amount to new teams, who are in the 2nd from worst division of their country? Does this seem fair when he has played longer and has a better team (and a better team not because he was paid more from the start?)
*skip to page 6 unless you want to read _james and Damien spamming the thread in an attempt to troll, but if you feel like a laugh, especially seeing Damien get completely put in his place, read on, but bring the popcorn*
(edited)
But if you want to say it's just due to promotion, then what happens when the top of that division promotes? They also go up in sponsor, but the top of the Australian division can't promote, therefore can't go up in sponsor.
So in Poland, they can have 4 more promotions, each time getting more sponsors, than what the small country says.
It doesn't matter which way you look at it, the system is flawed in such a way that it actually isn't possible for a small country to keep up.
And how do you explain fantum getting less or equivalent amount to new teams, who are in the 2nd from worst division of their country? Does this seem fair when he has played longer and has a better team (and a better team not because he was paid more from the start?)
*skip to page 6 unless you want to read _james and Damien spamming the thread in an attempt to troll, but if you feel like a laugh, especially seeing Damien get completely put in his place, read on, but bring the popcorn*
(edited)
Can you give us the levels and the strengths of the leagues, and how many real player are in the leagues?
Also how many supporters do they have?
Why are you hiding the names, did those players say that they wanna be anonymous?
Also how many supporters do they have?
Why are you hiding the names, did those players say that they wanna be anonymous?
You need to stop trying to find ways to defend Poland, and realise there is a huge flaw. We can only point it out so many ways. From anecdotal at first, to getting proof of experienced teams, to a very well written example by cometer, to getting more evidence of new teams getting more than experienced teams who are good that have been around.
You are trying to argue to sky isn't blue, whilst putting on your sunglasses and refusing to look up.
You are trying to argue to sky isn't blue, whilst putting on your sunglasses and refusing to look up.
I'm not hiding anything. And if Raul wants them I will give them.
I can only ask so many questions to players or I won't get a reply.
Supporters, team strength, strength of leagues are all a result of getting more money initially, and therefore the money initially is important. If you got twice as much money as me from day 1, I would expect you to have a stronger side, therefore you didn't get twice as much money because you had a stronger side previously and this is your thought process.
So there is no hiding _james. Read the discussion and see just how it is. And until you actually understand what is going on, its better to stay out of it. And if you would like to find them, I have given enough information to be able to find them pretty easily. So go ahead, rather than implying that I am making this up.
(edited)
I can only ask so many questions to players or I won't get a reply.
Supporters, team strength, strength of leagues are all a result of getting more money initially, and therefore the money initially is important. If you got twice as much money as me from day 1, I would expect you to have a stronger side, therefore you didn't get twice as much money because you had a stronger side previously and this is your thought process.
So there is no hiding _james. Read the discussion and see just how it is. And until you actually understand what is going on, its better to stay out of it. And if you would like to find them, I have given enough information to be able to find them pretty easily. So go ahead, rather than implying that I am making this up.
(edited)