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Subject: »[info]Dev Diary #82: Automatic release of NT-players from

2022-07-23 17:22:37
@Borkos,

you gave examples of teams who are from countries who were once big and made all their money from that time, not teams who have had to try and make it in a small country...that's a very big difference

Yes my transfer is negative, but it's very easy to make the transfers page look good. MANY teams continually list players for high numbers, that go default, but the listing costs of these players are never taken off the transfers total. I've seen a lot of higher positive balance teams who end up spending more on listing fees than the "profit" that is shown.
The lost revenue from transfer fees, and for fees in U23's, these are never taken off either.

There are fewteams that truly have hundreds of millions in profit, and most of those that do have been around for many seasons.

You must also remember that peak transfer time is between 1-5am in Australia compared to Europe.

But if you actually read what has been brought up, noone has complained about the issues with the transfer market, or not getting enough money in from there, they are complaining that everything in this game is based on supporter numbers which can only be maintained if they are from a large country.
This goes from sponsorship to gate income. This is the base amount of money you get regardless of what is going on in life, and the higher it is, the more you can afford to spend on the transfer market.

And constantly Polish people come and say, "but the money doesn't come from sponsorship" because it is a good excuse to keep peoples focus away from the natural benefit all Poland users have gained, and if you truly believe it doesn't help, why are you and Mikoos so dead against these features being fixed for smaller countries?



@Mikoos
Honestly mate, you need to look at what you say before you say it, because your points to "prove me wrong" are not distinguishing factors between our countries and often prove my point more than yours.

"So how do they make money? By training. That's how you make money in sokker. Of course after the league reform it is much easier to be in plus every week with the current ticket money, but it's the same in every country. But it's only a "plus" in weekly balance, main cost of being in top league is players losing a lot of their value simply by getting older." - the examples borkos gave added 200k AU$ per week to the teams income. Sponsorship for that team is about 400k AU$ per week --> which number is greater?

Thanks, I've been playing sokker since it first came out, have been number 1 in Australia and have regularly beaten much harder opposition with both my team and the NT, and that is despite all the issues the game has towards smaller nations. Players in main leagues of small nations al lose a lot of their value by simply getting older. Do you really think we are all down here just playing a full team of 22yos? How are those gate takings for the teams in the top divisions? Trust me, a lot better than we see. With fans madly in love, many teams I play gate takings of 200k euro.

"made by being in 4th or 5th division league, where the average level is similar to your top league"
This says it all, the best a small nation can get to is the equivalent of Poland 4th/5th division in strength due to all the financial factors that continue to hold small nations down. This has been going on for over a decade, has been proven over and over and over again.


Have posted one thread regarding the research in the post below


"he plays the same squad in all three matches in a week. "
Actually looking back through his matches this is incorrect, but you picked his latest week where he obviously has been busy. If you look further back, it looks like he has been training pace for quite a while. But again, stopped as soon as you "found data" that suited your point of view.
And why would he auto-demote? Because who in the top 9 is he going to beat to make them auto demote? And as you say, training is how you make money, but if he is using very old players as you say, then he won't be training them properly
That particular user has actually trained many Australian NT players, so whilst they may not be the perfect trainer, I can say his training has been "good enough" to be keeping up with the average sokker user.

" He is the problem of his team, not the league, not the sponsorship money, not the tickets money, not the number of fans he has. He could do great if he learns :)" Once again wrong. :)
How would you like to see your sponsorship cut by 60% overnight back to the level you started playing?
Your current team only started in 2021 and benefited from being promoted to Div 5 after 1 month - which pushed your sponsorship right up above anything any team other than the top division of smaller countries can earn, and that's got nothing to do with good management, that is you taking over the top team towards the end of the season, and literally being able to just make a basic tactic.
(edited)
2022-07-23 17:56:20
Make it simple, I can't read this sausage
2022-07-23 18:02:40
This is one of the topics that I posted about the difference just in sponsorship, nothing else.

Regarding new teams

That's sponsorship difference (or similarity depending on the example) but with 2 years difference between the teams. 2 real years, not seasons.

This page shows the ceiling top teams in small countries hit, with no way to move forward

Ceiling for old teams - Once teams hit this ceiling, they are unable to push their team further because they are constantly held back by not having enough users in the country to maintain the number of fan club members within the top division to push to levels that large countries like Poland and Italy have. Therefore they cannot make the funds to improve their team ratings.


And looking back at the examples you gave of teams from "small countries" Borko's
You chose Suomi and Bosnia - both of these teams are in the top 30% of all sokker nations....that does not make them a small country. Both of these nations can fill the top 2 divisions completely with the new system which protects the top teams. Prior to the new system when there were 8 teams in a league, they were even more protected.

You chose two teams from Bolivia to look at money - well not only have both these teams made it due to them being very old teams, but look at their team ratings? Oh, despite all their money from transfers, they are still rating similar to Australian teams....and have a similar size country. Very interesting.

Just looking at Deportivo Motoyoé who has made 171M AU$ (approx 110M euro) - over his entire time, that equates to approx 200k AU$ (130k euro) per week from transfers, which, being the top of his country and unable to go higher due to the ceiling, assuming his sponsorship is capped similar to Australia, brings his income from sponsor+transfer market to equal just sponsorship from top division poland/italy. But I can guarantee his income from stadium are a lot less, income from cup matches a lot less etc.

Of course the normal response is - but his team isn't as strong as those large nations - and that is because of all of the above, he actually cannot get stronger in the game due to everything being based solely on supporter numbers (your supporter numbers, those in your league, those that move in and out at season end, and the teams from the league which they came)

Sustaining a high rating team in a small country is not feasible because there isn't the baseline money coming in.
And despite how many people have argued this point (always from a large nation not wanting to admit the help they have received), not a single person has had the stones to make a new team in a smaller country and prove us all wrong. And many who have argued against this have since left the game, or returned to the game, so would have been very easy to start in a small country.

We have even had users who have asked to be allowed to start a second team in large countries to prove it, but either get no answer or denied.

And the funny thing is, merging all small nations that cannot fill 2 full divisions worth of teams, in to one big league but retaining their country, would solve all the inherent bias's within the game, yet this constantly gets shut down as a possibility. It wouldn't even be that hard as teams in the past have been moved to new countries with all their current players before (but due to their dominance, you not must start a new team if moving countries), so at it's simplest, it would just mean "creating a new country" and moving the teams to it. There's a bit more to it as far as juniors and retaining national cups, but in essence it can already been done, and team movement has been shown to be possible in the past.
2022-07-23 18:04:03
I totally agree with achmid but I have to agree with trga. Keep it short and simple you will never convince people that are not in your shoes...
2022-07-23 18:13:26
This is very true, and I hate looking at walls of text as well. Unfortunately when you are rebutting 2 people, who wrote walls of text themselves, it is hard to keep short.

In the end, most of this conversation should be in the threads that are attributed to such conversations.

And to think, this all started because of a short sighted comment by Raul stating teams made more money last season than ever before, despite the short season - which was the case in large countries and select managers in other countries, whilst those who were negatively impacted, Raul had never taken the time to read the constant messages or forum posts from those which suffered, showing a complete disconnect from what is really happening in smaller nations - no matter how gently or forcibly it pointed out.

And yet they wonder why the users are leaving, and their own hip pocket is lighter than it should be.
2022-07-23 19:19:46
Is the new system already active? It's that it comes out but I don't trust the mobile haha
2022-07-23 19:21:11
Yes new training page now active
You can see your training page
2022-07-23 20:03:41
Looks like the changes are already in place. When I click on "training" a new system opens.
2022-07-23 22:15:30
yep happy new training :)
2022-07-23 22:21:22
i wish no injury for everyone ;)
2022-07-23 23:58:01
Haha just let it go... Mikos will never listen just willing to push his opinion, honestly people are talking about real issues but he just doesn't care what anybody writes. It's like a monologue.

I u der stand you and agree. If he cannot put himself to the shoes of those smaller cou tries too bad for him. Fact is that it has been proven otherwise but he replies always with his stubborn opinion without trying to even understand the main issue.

But it's fun reading to see people's mindsets and not willing to listen to the others just because he s too proud. Sad but the truth.

Again cou tries with small amount of players should be merged or that idea to merge every team to one league system would be fair. Wouldn't go to details as tdetails have been discussed earlier. ????
2022-07-24 00:48:56
adaca to trga
Someone called??? I heard sausage
2022-07-24 02:14:27
2022-07-24 07:44:52
#66 is here
2022-07-24 08:12:02
Nice tool! However, it seems to not give a result when the calculation seems to exceed 100%
I tried cup match 90 minutes, NT match 60 minutes and then sunday match 90 minutes and the result bar disappeared...
2022-07-24 09:43:24
Fixed. Enjoy.

Training effectiveness calculator
(edited)