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Subject: »[info] Dev Diary #76: Nothing is Certain Except Taxes
+1
mass message with link to common poll will be ok if poll is simple not in large news just with key options so then even translation will not be needed
mass message with link to common poll will be ok if poll is simple not in large news just with key options so then even translation will not be needed
all(?) countries and translate in own language
I hope in most of countries, but still if not, they will recieve english version too. Many thanks for linguist in last weeks.
And main page news section is also most important to assure traffic on our poll, not forum.
I hope in most of countries, but still if not, they will recieve english version too. Many thanks for linguist in last weeks.
And main page news section is also most important to assure traffic on our poll, not forum.
election do not work.. i 3x vote option 3.. i try home, work, phone and took my vote....
if is somebody crazy, can make XY vote for option 1...
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if is somebody crazy, can make XY vote for option 1...
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and if you have IP like me, turn off, turn on router and have different IP, can make XY vote... but do not do it.
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As matter stand, the current poll outside of Sokker can't be rightful at the end. I think we should make a poll paralell here, at the forum, too.
And for promoting this whole project and the poll, we should write sokker-mail (a reminder) to every single user. Maybe the promoters can help in this, a lot. (There is no need to make a tool for this, it can be done without it, too.)
The result of this "second" poll on the forum can be a "controll value" both for you and for Sokker users. The conclusion could be done after analize both of the polls.
If there are too big differencies between the results of first and second voting, you shouldn't handle the first poll as starting point of course, but if the tendencies and the specific/symmetric data's = almost the same % of the answers are the same at both, that will be for everyone an objective result which you can handle as final result.
There can be a difference in participant number of each voting, but if the first poll (outside Sokker) will have much more voters, you should think about the complains made by users in this forum earlier about clearness. I know there can be several or maybe a several dozen people who is at the moment outside Sokker, so it is normal that the first poll will have more voters, but the difference is not indifferent! :-)
That's only an idea from me which maybe can be done even today or in the upcoming days. With this we can make the whole process more fair.
And for promoting this whole project and the poll, we should write sokker-mail (a reminder) to every single user. Maybe the promoters can help in this, a lot. (There is no need to make a tool for this, it can be done without it, too.)
The result of this "second" poll on the forum can be a "controll value" both for you and for Sokker users. The conclusion could be done after analize both of the polls.
If there are too big differencies between the results of first and second voting, you shouldn't handle the first poll as starting point of course, but if the tendencies and the specific/symmetric data's = almost the same % of the answers are the same at both, that will be for everyone an objective result which you can handle as final result.
There can be a difference in participant number of each voting, but if the first poll (outside Sokker) will have much more voters, you should think about the complains made by users in this forum earlier about clearness. I know there can be several or maybe a several dozen people who is at the moment outside Sokker, so it is normal that the first poll will have more voters, but the difference is not indifferent! :-)
That's only an idea from me which maybe can be done even today or in the upcoming days. With this we can make the whole process more fair.
+1 that is all i wanted to say since poll one but i guess do not express it properly as you!
Guys, maybe it's hard to imagine, as you are most active users, and visit forum quite often, but from Google Analytics data we know, that only small % of users use forum. We need more complex solution for voting, SK polls are not good enough and would focus mainly on forum users.
Linking to external page is the same effort than linking to a forum page.
So that what you wrote is just an excuse. :-P
Linking to external page is the same effort than linking to a forum page.
So that what you wrote is just an excuse. :-P
only for logged users, we are also using that poll externally + for current level of poll (with so many questions and ability to analyze for example votes of small countries seperatly from large ones) it's simply impossible to use SK polls.
What is the point of external polls, if you are going to work with results that don't correspond with the reality? If we were to believe that you really care about the opinions of users...
in favor of devs, it’s very important don’t forget that in this forum we only write 30? 40? users. There are many users who don’t have opinions here and who may have different opinions from ours. even, it’s important to know the opinion of unregistered people
it’s very important don’t forget that in this forum we only write 30? 40? users
If you give people link to the forum where they can vote, they will vote, same as if you give them an external poll.
it’s important to know the opinion of unregistered people
1. If someone is interested in sokker, he already registered. Why would you click on survey link when you do not care?
2. Unregistered users do not have an idea about sokker and what the changes will mean.
3. How did the unregistered people even get a link to the survey?
Opinion of an unregistered user has a little weight.
If you give people link to the forum where they can vote, they will vote, same as if you give them an external poll.
it’s important to know the opinion of unregistered people
1. If someone is interested in sokker, he already registered. Why would you click on survey link when you do not care?
2. Unregistered users do not have an idea about sokker and what the changes will mean.
3. How did the unregistered people even get a link to the survey?
Opinion of an unregistered user has a little weight.
+1
30, 40 active users and how many polish among them ?
They don't write anything but they certainly vote, and they are.... 1/3 of the total users !
So no surprise for me to see some poll results very far from what we read in this forum.
30, 40 active users and how many polish among them ?
They don't write anything but they certainly vote, and they are.... 1/3 of the total users !
So no surprise for me to see some poll results very far from what we read in this forum.
Sviktorov's poll had 236 votes. And, if the rest of users received an skmail with a link to the poll, it would have much more participants.
Also, the Sokker polls answers have the users associated (that's why you can't vote 2 times on them). So you can know which countries prefer which options, what's the preference of plus users, and everything you can imagine.
And this is not incompatible with an external poll: you can have the opinion of Sokker and non-Sokker users and compare it
Also, the Sokker polls answers have the users associated (that's why you can't vote 2 times on them). So you can know which countries prefer which options, what's the preference of plus users, and everything you can imagine.
And this is not incompatible with an external poll: you can have the opinion of Sokker and non-Sokker users and compare it
I agree with what BlueZero wrote.
Unregistered users cannot give you qualified opinions about what changes should be implemented, because they don't know the game. Even if they got to fill the survey somehow, they would probably answer based on their personal preference from other online games.
The core is existing users. You should listen to their opinions in the first place. If you make some unsensitive changes, you could temporarily attract new users but the potential loss of old users would overweight it in the long run.
This is a table of all Czech users by year of a registration:
2004 - 1
2005 - 11
2006 - 33
2007 - 23
2008 - 35
2009 - 31
2010 - 16
2011 - 14
2012 - 8
2013 - 3
2014 - 6
2015 - 4
2016 - 15
2017 - 15
2018 - 15
2019 - 9
2020 - 21
It is worth noting that many of them have their second team. I am between 4 users registered in 2015, but I started to play in 2005. Over the years I have seen thousands of new users lasting only several days. At the end, the game is about users that have created a special bond with the game and remained here for years.
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Unregistered users cannot give you qualified opinions about what changes should be implemented, because they don't know the game. Even if they got to fill the survey somehow, they would probably answer based on their personal preference from other online games.
The core is existing users. You should listen to their opinions in the first place. If you make some unsensitive changes, you could temporarily attract new users but the potential loss of old users would overweight it in the long run.
This is a table of all Czech users by year of a registration:
2004 - 1
2005 - 11
2006 - 33
2007 - 23
2008 - 35
2009 - 31
2010 - 16
2011 - 14
2012 - 8
2013 - 3
2014 - 6
2015 - 4
2016 - 15
2017 - 15
2018 - 15
2019 - 9
2020 - 21
It is worth noting that many of them have their second team. I am between 4 users registered in 2015, but I started to play in 2005. Over the years I have seen thousands of new users lasting only several days. At the end, the game is about users that have created a special bond with the game and remained here for years.
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Unregistered users do not have an idea about sokker and what the changes will mean.
That's true.
Anyway Devs will know how address the poll. They aren't robots and I think they will look for their business.
That's true.
Anyway Devs will know how address the poll. They aren't robots and I think they will look for their business.
We have not more than 15% of users that we had in the past.
Lot of them resigned after lot of years of play. It's important to reach them too.
For now - even on facebook profile we have more fans than users in real game... and the poll is promoted there too.
We are tired a bit with so basic explanations - if you really think, that we dont listen users and manipulate with results - sure, go for it, your rights. For me it's just a conspiracy theory, nothing more, its extremly bad idea to do business without listening of users. On forum we have most engaged, most fanatic part of sokker society. it would be a big mistake, to listen only that part of users. I think that some of users from forum just cant imagine, how it's possible, that if in very intelectual discussion between 10-20 users on forum can be not in line with results - well, I can. Just need to remember, that mainstream SK user is rather not here.
But, there is just different value of forum - lot of ideas and challenging opinions, it helps us a lot.
We need more advanced tools than SK polls, period.
And sure, if you want to change devices to cheat in poll - yes, you can. Only option to block that is to block access with email verification (and still you can cheat by using many emails) so we decided to take that risk, and stay with easy access.
But finally - voting is just a part of our work to evaluate ideas, we hope that none of you will cheat about it to manipulate results (and i dont belive in it, that someone will try to vote houndred times to really be able to infect on it).
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Lot of them resigned after lot of years of play. It's important to reach them too.
For now - even on facebook profile we have more fans than users in real game... and the poll is promoted there too.
We are tired a bit with so basic explanations - if you really think, that we dont listen users and manipulate with results - sure, go for it, your rights. For me it's just a conspiracy theory, nothing more, its extremly bad idea to do business without listening of users. On forum we have most engaged, most fanatic part of sokker society. it would be a big mistake, to listen only that part of users. I think that some of users from forum just cant imagine, how it's possible, that if in very intelectual discussion between 10-20 users on forum can be not in line with results - well, I can. Just need to remember, that mainstream SK user is rather not here.
But, there is just different value of forum - lot of ideas and challenging opinions, it helps us a lot.
We need more advanced tools than SK polls, period.
And sure, if you want to change devices to cheat in poll - yes, you can. Only option to block that is to block access with email verification (and still you can cheat by using many emails) so we decided to take that risk, and stay with easy access.
But finally - voting is just a part of our work to evaluate ideas, we hope that none of you will cheat about it to manipulate results (and i dont belive in it, that someone will try to vote houndred times to really be able to infect on it).
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